Twice, this past week, the concept of women's rights, what constitutes sexual consent and what responsibilities the man plays in the situation, have come up. As a woman who believes that women are powerful and strong and deserve to be treated well and all that, I am struggling because in both instances this week I did not support the idea that either woman falls into the "victim" category.
1) A woman wrote a blog about GSA (genetic sexual attraction) to her father, that she acted on, writes and posts online about it and takes the stance as the victim in the situation because a) he was the parent and b) GSA is normal.
My perception of the initial blog was that she performed a sexual act on her biological father twice and then felt guilt and / or shame afterwards because of their shared DNA.
ME: I
love that you share articles that aren't all about the kardashians or
cute kittens first off. Secondly, I didn't feel that the author was
"brave" for sharing the story really. The whole taboo obsession feels
like feeding into the compulsions people have.
It seemed like an attention seeking article to justify her as a victim.
I don't think the dad should EVER have done anything remotely physical
with a 19 year old adult daughter, but claiming naivety or fighting her
GSA urges by continuing to get closer to him emotionally and physically
just doesn't make me sympathize. I'm not someone who tolerates the whole
"she wanted it" idea about rape victims, but I also cannot commend
women who dress provacatively and then get upset when men show sexual
interest (NOT RAPE, but whistles, comments, etc). Getting into bed and
cuddling with a man who biologically contributed to you, but you've
never met and you're attracted to? And then acting disgusted with
yourself and then doing it again? She was looking for a father's love,
but didn't know any better that talking about sex and watching porn were
signs to get the F out? And then acknowledging afterwards that she
should have known better....I just can't commend her for the
contributions she made to repeatedly go through what she did. She wasn't
sheltered in some Mormon camp. She wasn't tied up or forced or
threatened. She went to Jamaica and ate nice dinners and then made a
conscious decision to give her dad a blow job? Then did it again? It
falls into this whole "50 shades of grey" / rape fantasy = modern day
love. If two consenting adults have urges or desires that they agree to,
have at it. But don't claim victim or renounce any sense of
contribution when you share your story with the world. That really
disgusts me.
EDDIE: While I understand where Cassy is coming from, I think there is something deeply Psychological and "glass house" at play here. To suggest that she should have "known better" is the same as saying victims of domestic violence should have known it was time to "get out" of their relationship. It's
easy to look at a situation with the power of foresight. However, being
in the midst of the situation, not understanding your own feelings or
even your own sanity...how is one to react to a situation like that?
Especially at 19 and when the seed had been planted at the age of 17? She
has already come from a disturbed household with no context for her
circumstances. How should she have "known better" with nothing to
compare it to? It's
always easier to look back on a situation and realize how bad your
decisions were, but it's never so easy when you're caught up in the
storm. And
on the whole 50 shades of Grey thing, not everyone has the context to
know that that is NOWHERE NEAR a healthy BDSM relationship and is in
fact an abhorrent abusive relationship. Again,
our life experiences define the context for our lives. If we have no
experience, we have no context and cannot fully comprehend the
situations we are immersed in. We don't start as experts, we have to learn.
ME: I
just find it hard to believe that she was friendless, had no access to
any form of media, no other living relatives and spent every day alone
in her room. While her mother, stepfather and absent biological father
did play a part in her understanding of
romantic relationships, she was not oblivious to every other example in
the world she had been exposed to before deciding to engage in a sexual
relationship with her own father. I respect your points, I just can't believe she had no life experience to tell her otherwise that it was a bad situation. As
many people judge or look down on most sexual acts that are "normal"
while potentially "unhealthy", I feel the need to repeat: if both are
adults, both consent, both are responsible. It's like when a girl gets
pregnant and the boy gets blamed. Both chose to engage in sex that put
them at risk for pregnancy, both are resoonsible for contraceptive
choices and the repurcussions that follow.
EDDIE: I
respect your points as well. They are valid. However, it's still easy
to get swept up in a situation before you realize what you've gotten
yourself into. I agree the fact that she chose to repeat the process brings things to question. However, I also say that as an adult with life experiences that have taught me such is inadvisable. Consent
is a challenging grey area (as much as I hate saying that being that
I'm a huge advocate for Women's Rights). According to the law, a minor
under the age of 18 is unable to provide consent. So, by that
definition, if a 17 year old has sex with an 18 year old (even if they
both agree to the act) the 18 year old could still be prosecuted for
Statutory rape. Plus,
in order for there to truly be consent, both parties must be on the
same page as to what they are getting into. They must both have the same
level of understanding of risk, the same level of understanding of
effective contraception, the same level of awareness of their
surroundings (not under the influence of mind-influencing substances). I
would agree that if two parties go into a situation with the same
educational background and same state-of-mind and are consenting adults,
then they are equally responsible for their actions. However, there are a lot of external factors based on the circumstances. As
an outsider looking in, sure. It probably wasn't a good idea for her to
engage. However, her father has just as much responsibility to
disengage and chose not to. And yet, we focus on her as being the main
responsible individual? Something seems out of place there
ME: So
does that mean since my boyfriend is younger than me and different
amount of college completed that he cannot really be consenting to the
relationship? No,
he should have not pursued the relationship, but she chose to write an
article portraying herself as victim, while I see her as a contributor
to the circumstance. If he had sex with her EVERYONE would say 100% she
was the victim, no doubt. But by her
servicing him multiple times, it felt like a typical exchange between
older man / younger woman relationship. The male provider, sugar daddy
supplying exotic locale, meals and shelter with an implied expectation
of sexual release. I don't agree with it, but a lot of life is based on
exchange and barter (again WITH consent).
EDDIE: I think the more important takeaway from this is not that this is someone putting out their dirty laundry for the world to see. Sure there is plenty of empirical evidence that incestuous relationships are a bad idea. But how does one contend with strong urges that they do not understand? Consent
is strongly rooted in communication. But that is a skill that is poorly
taught at best. We live in a country where sex education has a primary
focus on loss, risk, and avoidance. Rarely is it taught what is actually
healthy (especially at a high school age). This
story is deeply concerning, but that's all the more important it be
shared so it could be learned from. She clearly needed help, but did not
know where to turn until it was too late. Perhaps
by having this story and more like it out there, others who may be
going through exactly this may see their situation for what it is and
get the help they need. I find it hard to believe that this is an
isolated story.
ALY: Eddie,
thank you so much for your words - you have said more with less than I
usually can muster, lol; a good thing indeed for us, as I agree with
you, and thus we all don't have to wade through the essays I'd have
produced (le sigh). Cassy, thank you for sharing your perspective - I do disagree, but not irreparably so I think. Let me see if I can explain why. As
far as I can tell (and please feel free to correct me!), your
disagreement with the piece I posted stems from several things: she was
old enough/should have known better, and thus she should not be taking
the stance of victim. First,
some details seemed to have gotten mixed up: she was 19 when they met,
21 when the incidents of sex happened, which occurred during one visit,
the final one, and over a couple of days; she is now 27. They did go out
to dinner during that final visit, but quite probably due to a
precedent set-up from previous visits more than a post coital
celebration/"sugar daddy" scenario (especially with his current
girlfriend in attendance at said dinner). It would seem that she did not
see him after that, but the feelings of attraction continued to become
more depthful for her, along with her shame/revulsion; at some point,
she started therapy once back. Now,
onto the main of my thoughts on this: 19-yr-olds are not as much of an
"adult" as we think of them (especially one of her background/baggage);
in that age range, unless you have given it previous thought, a scenario
can easily surprise you into doing things you never usually would, had
you had time to think it through; and given her background (lack of
familial boundaries, abuse, etc.) it made her particularly susceptible;
the power dynamics of the relationship (her looking for a “savior” in a
new parental figure), even with someone newer in her life (two years of
establishing the relationship/grooming her) it is far harder than one
would want to believe to resist an overture such as this. We want to
believe that we will always do better, immediately take our power back
in a situation, say no; but rarely is it like that, especially taking
all of these circumstances into account. An excellent visceral
illustration of this is the show What Would You Do? where you get rather
beaten over the head with this idea (youtube it - it is totally worth
it). Here is the follow-up post, by the way. I think you might find the ground covered therein makes for a fuller picture.
2) An ABC Family TV show filmed multiple episodes covering underage drinking, blacking out, sexual consent, what constitutes rape / sexual assault if both parties drink and remember things differently. Who is at fault or to blame? I had trouble with the double standard if the roles were reversed I find it highly doubtful that anyone would believe the male were the victim of rape if he claimed to have blacked out and the female said he gave consent. This goes into a whole area of women 'receive' sex and men 'give' sex. There is an argument that asks: How can men be raped by a woman when their physiological response is an erection due to erotic stimuli? i.e. 'they must have wanted the sex subconsciously, so that makes it okay'.
[Season 4]
In this season, the girl Bay and the guy Tank, who used to be in a romantic relationship with one another, are at a party. They both drink way too much and wake up the next morning together, naked, in bed. Bay says she blacked out and Tank says she initiated it. The argument here is that the guy should never sleep with a girl who has been drinking, because if she can't remember giving consent then it automatically is rape. The support is that some girls "don't know how to say stop" and if "you're the guy...it falls on you to be in control of the situation". Another girl in the show says "[Bay] shouldn't have put herself in that situation..[because girls] can't let [their] guard down...that's how it is". The sad part is I fall into this belief system while at that same time feel that the world should not be this way, but err on the cautious side rather than the remorse and regret side. It's naive to assume you are safe or exempt from harm, when anything can happen. Tank says "[he] thought [he] had a green light" while Bay acknowledges "[she] didn't look out for [her]self...[Tank] also made some bad choices...you
can't hang one guy for it...you're looking to pin responsibility on
someone". Bay's mother shares that she was sexually assaulted by her friend's brother and that "[she] thought it was [her] fault because [she] couldn't stop it" and goes on to say that she kept it quiet because it didn't count because it wasn't intercourse.
WILL CONTINUE MORE LATER
